[aosd-discuss] "AOP considered harmful"

[Eric Tanter]

Hi,

Beyond this expert reports stuff, I think the point made in the "AOP 
considered harmful" paper is interesting, and that would be nice to 
hear what real AOP experts have to say to this.

When giving lectures on AOP I already faced the question of the 
"encapsulation breaking" issue, and if I do not mistake myself Jonathan 
Aldrich is proposing some construct to address this (by restricting the 
join points to which advice may apply).

But what about the fact that AOP breaks Dijkstra's requisite of a sound 
mapping from variables to values based only on a coordinate system of 
non-program values?
Max, what were the reactions/conclusions you reached while presenting 
the paper at EIWAS?

Cheers,

-- Eric

On Apr 25, 2005, at 10:28, Gregor Kiczales wrote:

> Its also interesting to note that the Burton analyst spoke
> by phone and email to a number of people I know of (likely
> he spoke to more of course). And asking around a lot I
> haven't been able to find a single expert the Forrester
> analyst consulted.
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: discuss-bounces at aosd.net
>> [mailto:discuss-bounces at aosd.net] On Behalf Of Alexandre Vasseur
>> Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 1:35 AM
>> To: stoerzer at fmi.uni-passau.de
>> Cc: discuss at aosd.net
>> Subject: Re: [aosd-discuss] "AOP considered harmful"
>>
>> Max, thanks for clarifying that. I am wondering if the Forrester
>> analyst contacted you to write his report (that I had the chance to
>> read entirely - not just the abstract) and if you told him so ?
>>
>> No need to say that the Burton Group report published recently seems
>> to give a contradictory echo to this one by the way.
>> http://www.burtongroup.com/research_consulting/publicdoc.aspx?cid=679
>>
>> Alex
>>
>>
>> On 4/25/05, Maximilian Stoerzer <stoerzer at fmi.uni-passau.de> wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> as one of the authors of the referenced paper, just a short
>> note: This
>>> paper was written for a panel discussion, and indeed intended to be
>>> provocative.
>>>
>>> However, I think that AOP as we see it now can result in
>> reduced program
>>> understandability, if used in the wrong way. Additionally AOP imho
>>> strongly depends on tool support (thanks for ajdt, great
>> tool in that
>>> context!).
>>>
>>> Our intention in comparing advice and GOTO was to outline these
>>> problems, as I think they have to be addressed to make AOP
>> a long term
>>> success story, especially when considering software
>> maintenance - and in
>>> no way AOP bashing, please don't get us wrong ;o)
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>      Max
>>>
>>> Eric Bodden wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>> Hash: SHA1
>>>>
>>>> To taday on
>>>> http://slashdot.org/
>>>>
>>>> Eric
>>>>
>>>> - --
>>>> Eric Bodden
>>>> Chair I2 for Programming Languages and Program Analysis
>>>> RWTH Aachen University
>>>>
>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>>> Version: PGP 8.0.3
>>>>
>>>> iQA/AwUBQmud18wiFCm7RlWCEQIuqwCeKHRXfAlPVVvedQFNCvWbC7iotL4AoJEJ
>>>> BKwiqmo2X8f3iqA/FBpRnYsK
>>>> =0M0e
>>>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>> AOSD Discuss mailing list    -    discuss at aosd.net
>>>> To unsubscribe go to http://aosd.net
>>>
>>> --
>>> Maximilian Stoerzer
>>> Lehrstuhl Software Systeme - FMI - University of Passau
>>> Tel: +49 851 509 3096, eMail: stoerzer at fmi.uni-passau.de
>>>
>>> __________________________________________________
>>> AOSD Discuss mailing list    -    discuss at aosd.net
>>> To unsubscribe go to http://aosd.net
>>>
>>
>> __________________________________________________
>> AOSD Discuss mailing list    -    discuss at aosd.net
>> To unsubscribe go to http://aosd.net
>>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> AOSD Discuss mailing list    -    discuss at aosd.net
> To unsubscribe go to http://aosd.net
>